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Old 02-13-2009, 02:57 PM
Merc1991 Merc1991 is offline
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1991 Mercury, Grand Marquis 5.0L V8

2 issues here: First, my airbag light blinks 9 times and repeats indefinitely. I sure wish I knew what it was telling me. The dealership wanted about $70 dollars to tell me a few years back, so I gave up chasing that problem.

Second problem: The engine has a stutter while cruising at any speed, but it starts, idles, accelerates and decelerates flawlessly.

Example, from a dead stop, I accelerate to any speed and cruise along holding speed and then it does bursts of stutters in no particular pattern until I accelerate or decelerate. If I change speed in any way, the stuttering disappears, only to reoccur when I hold consistent speed again. It feels like it''''''''s associated with the ignition system because it''''''''s very quick on/off stutters and sometimes very violent too, as if some troll under the hood is screwing around with my ignition system.

I''''''''m replacing the distributor cap today with one that has brass contacts and a new rotor. Will replace Champion plugs with NGK plugs tomorrow. I''''''''ve checked the plug wires and all seems fine, but will throw new wires at it if I have to.

Any ideas?


Edited by: Merc1991
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Old 02-13-2009, 08:44 PM
pdman pdman is offline
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First of all, you didn''t say the year and engine of the car. The stutter might be caught by the ignition. I had the same problem as you with a different car [Subaru].I change the wires,plugs,distributor,rotor and fuel filter, to still have the same problem. I even removed the distributor from the engine and still no change. Until, one day the car didn''t want to start and after 2 hours of struggling, I giggled the wires around the distributor and the car started again. From there I saw some of the wires with a little bend. So I repair the bend wires and the problem was solved. Look for loose/bend wires going into the distributor because, they usually carried alot of current/juice and a slide bend might distract your ignition. I hope this helps you with your problem.
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Old 02-13-2009, 11:51 PM
conan312 conan312 is offline
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I think your problem is fuel related or a bad air/fuel sensor (TPS IAC MAF etc). If it were ignition it would act up all the time i.e. idle, accelerating, decelerating, etc. You need to have the car trouble codes pulled to tell the real prob. People on this site say AutoZone will pull the codes for free so you don''t have to pay Ford''s $70 diagnosis fee. Good luck.
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Old 02-14-2009, 08:08 PM
Merc1991 Merc1991 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdman
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First of all, you didn''''t say the year and engine of the car. The stutter might be caught by the ignition. I had the same problem as you with a different car [Subaru].I change the wires,plugs,distributor,rotor and fuel filter, to still have the same problem. I even removed the distributor from the engine and still no change. Until, one day the car didn''''t want to start and after 2 hours of struggling, I giggled the wires around the distributor and the car started again. From there I saw some of the wires with a little bend. So I repair the bend wires and the problem was solved. Look for loose/bend wires going into the distributor because, they usually carried alot of current/juice and a slide bend might distract your ignition. I hope this helps you with your problem.

Dangit anyways, I''m sorry.

It''s a 1991 Mercury Grand Marquis 5.0L v8

Thank you for your input, even though I forgot the most important information. I will look for any unusual wire bends.

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Old 02-14-2009, 08:16 PM
Merc1991 Merc1991 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conan312
I think your problem is fuel related or a bad air/fuel sensor (TPS IAC MAF etc). If it were ignition it would act up all the time i.e. idle, accelerating, decelerating, etc. You need to have the car trouble codes pulled to tell the real prob. People on this site say AutoZone will pull the codes for free so you don''''t have to pay Ford''''s $70 diagnosis fee. Good luck.
The airbag is for sure throwing a code, but I thought the service engine light would come on if something else was throwing a code?

In any case, good idea. I will bring it to Autozone; they do pull and clear the codes for free.

I will check those sensors with my meter/tester. I think I''m checking for resistance, but I''ll have to look it up in my Haynes manual.

Thank you for the response.

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Old 02-14-2009, 09:13 PM
maxfax3 maxfax3 is offline
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The air bag contol can;t be accessed with a scanner or code reader on a 91.. It is soley the blinks of the light. 9 blinks equal "Open forward sensor deployment circuit" There are three sensors on the front of your car I believe.. Left Center and Right usually mounted on the radiator support outside the engine compartment.. You can check these sensors my measuring their resistance with the sensor unplugged (always unhook the battery for about 10 mins before playing with the airbag stuff) The sensors themselves should be 1150 - 1210 ohms.. If they measure ok the next step would be to pluc them back in and disconnect the airbag module (behind center of dash, right of steering column) On the plug to the airbag module you''''ll want to measure the resistance between ground andpins 17, 18, and 19.. This should measure in the same specs as the sensors... If that is all good then it''''s probably the module itself...


The MAF is kinda hard to test, but they are known to be quirky.. The "hot wire" in the sensor get''''s coated with dirt which acts like an insulator and in turn it sends a reading to the computer saying the engine is getting less air than what it really is.. Since the computer is seeing less air it puts less fuel to the engine and in turn it runs on the lean side.. With the popularity of K&amp;N (and other brand) air filters this probem really came to light... SInce these filters are oiled small droplets of this oil blow back on the sensor causing the same results.. IF you have an oiled type air filter, switch to a dry filter (can still be washable) to help prevent MAF contamination..


Some have had good luck with the mass airflow sensor cleaners out there on the market.. Can;t hurt either way to give it a good cleanin...


AS far as you''''re stutter, don''''t rule out the wires, but check everyting else well..Quick check on the plug wires,Look under your hood after dark (remove the bulb from the hood light you want it pretty pitch black) With the engine running and preferably warm snap the throttle and watch for sparks from the wires, and also the coil.. A slight glow is okay (not great) but obvious sparks mean it''''s time for some new ones..


A TPS usually either goes dead and sets a light, or has a dead spot at a very distint position of the thottle.. You''''ll have an easier time testing for dead spotswith an analog volt meter.


EGR valves are notorious for problems too.. Sometime these will set the light, sometimes they don''''t.. Sometimes it the solenoid that controls it leaking.. Quick test on that woudl be to disconnect and plug the vac line to the valve and take er a spin...





Edited by: maxfax3
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Old 02-14-2009, 10:58 PM
Merc1991 Merc1991 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxfax3

The air bag contol can;t be accessed with a scanner or code reader on a 91.. It is soley the blinks of the light. 9 blinks equal "Open forward sensor deployment circuit" There are three sensors on the front of your car I believe.. Left Center and Right usually mounted on the radiator support outside the engine compartment.. You can check these sensors my measuring their resistance with the sensor unplugged (always unhook the battery for about 10 mins before playing with the airbag stuff) The sensors themselves should be 1150 - 1210 ohms.. If they measure ok the next step would be to pluc them back in and disconnect the airbag module (behind center of dash, right of steering column) On the plug to the airbag module you''''''''ll want to measure the resistance between ground andpins 17, 18, and 19.. This should measure in the same specs as the sensors... If that is all good then it''''''''s probably the module itself...


The MAF is kinda hard to test, but they are known to be quirky.. The "hot wire" in the sensor get''''''''s coated with dirt which acts like an insulator and in turn it sends a reading to the computer saying the engine is getting less air than what it really is.. Since the computer is seeing less air it puts less fuel to the engine and in turn it runs on the lean side.. With the popularity of K&amp;N (and other brand) air filters this probem really came to light... SInce these filters are oiled small droplets of this oil blow back on the sensor causing the same results.. IF you have an oiled type air filter, switch to a dry filter (can still be washable) to help prevent MAF contamination..


Some have had good luck with the mass airflow sensor cleaners out there on the market.. Can;t hurt either way to give it a good cleanin...


AS far as you''''''''re stutter, don''''''''t rule out the wires, but check everyting else well..Quick check on the plug wires,Look under your hood after dark (remove the bulb from the hood light you want it pretty pitch black) With the engine running and preferably warm snap the throttle and watch for sparks from the wires, and also the coil.. A slight glow is okay (not great) but obvious sparks mean it''''''''s time for some new ones..


A TPS usually either goes dead and sets a light, or has a dead spot at a very distint position of the thottle.. You''''''''ll have an easier time testing for dead spotswith an analog volt meter.


EGR valves are notorious for problems too.. Sometime these will set the light, sometimes they don''''''''t.. Sometimes it the solenoid that controls it leaking.. Quick test on that woudl be to disconnect and plug the vac line to the valve and take er a spin...





Thank you for this abundance of information; it is greatly appreciated. I will be up early morning, testing, cleaning and will report back in the afternoon.

So far, the new distributor cap, rotor and plugs did not do the trick as I still posses the stuttering, with the addition of bloody knuckles; disappointing to say the least. I retaliated with Seafoam through the PCV hose. And although that did nothing to alleviate my car problems, I sure felt above them for about 20 minutes, while my trails of smoke surely caused 911 pleas for assitance for an unidentified traveling smoke bomb.

For the most part, the outer engine is clean of oil, buildup and grime. I cleaned the PCV valve and hose prior to seafoaming it too and the oil is still relatively clean even after that torture treatment.

I use a dry air filter and that''s cleaned regulary.

The more I thought about it today while driving, the more I thought that just maybe it might be a sensor or non-electrical since it stutters when I cruise at a steady speed, but at no other time.

I will check the plug wires in the dark for any arcing too.

Again, thank you very much for your input. I will post a followup tomorrow afternoon.

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  #8  
Old 02-15-2009, 01:27 AM
maxfax3 maxfax3 is offline
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I did forget one thing... Ford only used a mass airflow sensor one the cars with California emissions... This sensor is located between the air filter box and the throttle body... ALuminum housing with a little rectangular black box with a 4 wire connector coming out of it.. Very good cance your car does not have one unless you are in or near Cali...





Good luck!
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Old 02-16-2009, 05:37 AM
slymer slymer is offline
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maxfax3: my wife''s 93 vic threw code 24 for a few days then stopped. are the codes for all ford airbags the same or do they change for model years/models?
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Old 02-16-2009, 10:05 AM
maxfax3 maxfax3 is offline
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Unfortunately they aren;t consistant.. For instance 91 and 93 differ.. And when Ford went OBD2 they changed again since the airbag computer wasaccessable via a scan tool... Probes and Contours were different as well...


For the 93 code 24 says "Safing sensor output feed/return circuit open or low resistance in a primary crash sensor" I can get you a rundown of the diag procedure on that code if you would like.. Unfortunatley with Alldata I can only save it as a .xps file...
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Old 02-16-2009, 10:05 AM
 
 
 
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1991, 1991air, 24, 91, air, airbag, bag, code, codes, control, grand, light, marquis, mercury, module

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