I''m new here and looking for some advice. I just bought a 1999 Sable LS with the Duratec engine. I have noticed that at certain times, not all the time, when I am stopped at a light the car begins to idle rough. Also, when I start to accelerate, i get some hesitation. Like I said it is not all the time, but it does happen more than I care for it to.
I have checked the air filter and it appears clean. I also added Slick 50 fuel system cleaner. The only thing I have not checked yet is the fuel filter.
Does anyone have any ideas on what this may be?
Thanks

Vacuum leaks can cause this sort of thing as well as a dirty Idle Air control valve... Fuel filter would probably be a good place to start, they''re cheap and it probably is due for one anyhow if you don;t know when it''s been changed last....There were also some issue with the mass airflow sensor but these will USUALLY set off the check engine light...


Now to blast you with questions. How many miles does it have? Has it been tuned up ever? IS the check engine light on?

Max, thanks for the fast reply. As a matter of fact, the "service engine soon'' light just came on today. What can this be for?
The car has 106K miles.

You''''ll have to have acode reader or scan toolto get the trouble codes to see why the light is on... Autozone and Advance used to do this for free..Or there are some inexpensive code readers out there in the $50 range (Probably about what most shops will charge to do this)... These will work on all 1996 and newer cars... It would probably be best to start with why the light is on... It could be any number of things that may or may not be related to your problem....


Manufacturer usually specifies for a tune up around 100K.. Tune up consists of at least new spark plugs, wires, fuel and air filter.. Some makes/models have other things to be done (egr or Idle air motor cleaned) but that''''s the basic...Edited by: maxfax3

Where can I see the trouble codes? Where on the car do I pull this from?

There is a diagnostic connector under the dash on the driver''s side to the left of the steering column.. That is where you''ll have to connect an OBDII code reader or scan tool...

you can also have a parts place read the codes for you. I know autozone will read 1996 and newer OBD-II vehicles (which yours is) for free.

I have the same sable as u, 99 ls.
Mine does the same thing, hesitates after accelerating from a stop, or randomly while driving low speeds. I was wondering the same thing as you. Let me know what it turns out to be for you.

It may need new plugs as well. I think my MGM is finally in need of new plugs. maybe even a top end tune up. I have just over 105k miles on it.

top end tuen up usually consists of plugs/wires/rotor/distributor cap/coil/capacitor (pick the parts that apply to your vehicle) and sometimes Oxygen sensors and the intake air flow sensors.

I think I''ll check mine this weekend since the weather looks like it will cooperate.

I brought the car into Autozone and had them check the engine light. The guy told me it was for a misfire in piston #2. He said it could be a bad plug or a dirty plug. Advised me to add some of the new concentrated gumout fuel injector cleaner and add fill up with 93 octane. Give 2-3 days and should be fine. I did what he said and I am on day 3 and the car is still the same. BTW - I noticed when I gun it, right before it kicks in I hear a "click" noise or a "knock" that sounds like it is from the engine. Then the car speeds up.
Any help is appreciated

it could just be time to replace the plugs. The plugs on the back side of the engine will be the hardest to get at. You might also need new wires, but go for the plugs first.

As a side note, the fuel treatments take the full tank to work.

You should probably consider changing the plugs regardless. 100,000 miles is generally about as long as any good plugs will last in a gasoline engine. After that you generally get worse gas mileage due to under-burn and/or fouling. When you do change the plugs, take note of the condition of the plugs.

there''s a chart of the different looks you may get from a plug over at classic truck shop.

Hopefully your plugs look like the first one. Let us know how they look.

P0302 shoud be th code they got...


Does it sound like predetination (pinging or valve chatter as it is commonly referred to)? I think I would pull the plug on the #2 cy and maybe the one beside it and see how they look.. Could be just a bad plug, a vac leak, or a bad injector on the number 2 cylinder....


WHen you rev the engine with the car in neutral does it still make the noise?? You may want to inspect your motor and transmission mounts as that coudl be the knock...

oo... I should check that on my wife''s vic... only 180K on that one [img]smileys/smiley4.gif[/img] the chatter may just be worn mounts.

The trans mounts are notoriously crappy on the Taurus/sable... Haven;t heard too much abou tthe Vic/GM but there''s always a first... The heat shelds on the cat converters are another thing to check.. They are more of a jingly tinny rattle (real technical here) They are just spot welded to the cats and will ocasionally brake loose.. Some big radiator hose clams are and easy fix for those...

I am going to have to try and change the plugs myself. Every shop I called gave me a price of $270-$340 to change the plugs and wires.
I have no issue doing it myself, but the manifold cover is in the way. How difficult is it to remove it and can someone give me some direction.
Thanks

This isn;t a terribly difficult ordeal.. Just disconnect everything that goes to the upper intake (vac lines, throttle cables & bracket, EGR valve, wiring to sensors) Unbolt the intake bolts starting at the outer ends working towards the center..


It does make it a tadmore accessableto remove the wiper arms and cowl vent cover, but it''s not totally necessary...


I''d suggest throwing a rag or some tape over the open ports (if you;re like me somthing is gonna fall in there otherwise)


THey recomend replacing the gasket for the upper intake but I;ve found that if they can be reused at least once.. Look it over and use your best judgement on that..


For the reinstall reverse the procedure.. STart tightening the manifold in the center and work your way out to the ends. Torque spec is 71 - 106 in/lbs... OR just snug them.. If you''re He-Man you may wanna use the torque wrench...


WHile you are at it you probably ought to replace the wires for the simple reason that you don;t wanna have to pull the manifold again to change those.. If it''s around 100k miles it''s probably due anyhow.. (oh wait you did say wires, sorry)I''d also check and possibly clean the throttle body and egr valve while it''s all apart... Inspect the rubber slboes and connectors for the PCV and breather lines also.. They have a tendancy to get mushy and deteriorated..

I'm experiencing the same problems with my 02 Sable. Stopped at a red light, the engine begins to stutter. Everything is fine in other driving. What's the final verdict in what is going to fix the problem? I'm not mechinally inclined so planning on bringing it to the shop this week. I would like to know where I can tell them to look first. Thanks guys!

Well they should know where to look first, especially if the check eng. light is on. But it would be nice if you went in there with a little understanding on what probable culprits are. First, you did not say the mileage, if you maintain the car regularly and if the check eng. soon light is on. My first suspect, if there is no power loss, is the IAC(idle air control). Does the car ever stall out and does it sputter every time? Hot/cold? Specifics will help! Let me know.

Thanks for the quick reply Conan.

Here's the details:

No engine light on, yet.

87K miles, I picked it up used at 84K. I put new spark plugs and fuel filter in shortly after I got it.

It has yet to completely stall out. The engine stutters at every stop while in drive. Haven't noticed much of a difference between the engine being hot and cold. There is a small oil leak that I've been waiting to fix until it gets a little warmer here in North Dakota. Not sure if that has any effect on it.

Thanks again!

it could be clogged oxygen sensors causing it to run rich because the computer thinks it's running too lean. Check the sensor(s) on the exhaust manifold. if there's carbon built up on them, you'll need to replace them. there could also be a vacuum leak somewhere in the system causing the problem... though it would have to be a pretty bad leak to do it (completely open line somewhere)

Duratec 24V or 12V Vulcan engine? What did you mean by "yet"? Even if the light is off, there can still be codes stored in the computer. May even be a blown out bulb, you never know. But you should go down to Auto Zone and have it plugged in. I'm pretty sure it is free. Have you tried running some fuel additive/cleaner, dry gas, high octane fuel, or all? Worth a shot. Let me know.

Hey Conan,

Sorry it's been a few days/weeks to get back to you. Was in the hospital for a few days then just been busy getting caught up with everything. I used a code reader at Auto Zone and it said that cylinder 1 is mis-firing. The thing is, I just had all the plugs and wires replaced no more than 1K miles ago. Bad plug? I'm planning on changing the plug myself tomorrow to see what happens. Hope this will solve it.

The plug is the cheapest way to start but probably at the bottom of the list of culprits.

should probably make sure the wires haven't wiggled loose. since you just changed them all, that may be why.

With my luck I'm guessing it probably won't be.

Dumb question, but where is cylinder 1? I'm hoping it's on the topside because I've heard the ones on the underside are a pain to get at.

cyl 1 is usually the one nearest the belts on the radiator side of the engine. check the wires to the plugs and make sure they're actually connected good and not just set on the plugs. (might even pull them off and put them back on) and make sure they're connected well at the coil(s).